A Girl...

Wow, do I ever know where you're coming from. It took seven years for HH and I to decide to marry. Another two to decide we were ready for kids. But every step of the way, we had our own unwanted, unnecessary cheering section.

"When are you getting married? When? WHEN? You didn't already elope did you? What's wrong with marriage, don't you want kids?" WTF!

Then as soon as we were married, and I'm talking at the congratulations section at the end of the aisle, the kid questions started coming. What the hell, people! You so desperate for offspring and expensive ceremonies, have one of your own!

Anyway, here was our standard response to the marriage question:

HH: Why marry the cow when I get the milk for free?

Me: Why marry the pig when I get seven inches of sausage for free whenever I want?

Am in the process of spawning, so no witty kid comebacks to offer. But yeah, the questions after my miscarriage were truly horrendous. Enough, people.

I think this is so well-put, and so right on. I have also heard people tell other people that their decision not to have children is a selfish one, which strikes me as one of the meaner things a person can say, and so off-base too.

I have felt this way about adoption before too, especially as we plan to adopt one child at some future date. People think that just because it's obvious that your child is adopted (i.e. the child is clearly of a different race than the parents), that they can sit there asking rude questions and making useless observations. Ever since we began talking about adopting, I have become more sensitive to it and now I see it all around me.

In general people like to offer advice and suggestions and observations--like my uncle who told me not to send out the save the dates yet when I told him I was getting married because "plans can change" and I'm "awfully young." The fact that they're usually well-meaning doesn't really help to ease the sting.

I have to say that I usually try to be more thoughtful when I write in the comments section of anyone's blog but I have to admit I sort of band wagoned my comment which is never a good idea when I felt in the pit of my tummy tum tum that it was not a good idea...

I also think this might have been my 1st (or 2nd) comment - I cannot remember - on your blog so please do not think negatively of me. At any rate (said weakly) for what it is worth - I do want to apologize for my thoughtless comments.

Finally, for me, it is a good reminder to remember we all have a story and some times we just don't want to lay it out there too much as it (whatever the it may be) can be/is a sensitive subject and who am I to take an assumptive posture on anyone's life.

Sorry.

A friend of ours--blonde and blue-eyed--had a baby with her husband--dark hair, eyes, skin. Their daughter got all the dominant genes and people assume she's adopted. "How great of you to open your home to a child in need!" they tell her. Two years later, she must be sick of saying, "Actually, she's mine."

You know that I hear ya on this post. People say the stupidest things, even when meaning well.

Great post, my friend. Very well written :)

ChrisFish--No hard feelings here. I just hope people think twice from now on about this sort of thing because it might really hurt someone out there who's having a rough time.

Oh dear, I'm so sorry! I do hope you feel better soon, and enjoy that sweet family of yours. I have to admit, I did cringe at a few of the comments. We have one child and I find it quite annoying when people suggest we won't be "whole" unless we have more. It's as if we aren't good enough for our daughter...or something.
All the best.

When I read that post yesterday I wondered if anyone was going to make that assumption about you. Sorry they punched every one of those buttons on you.

No wonder I felt bloated yesterday. I had a bunch of full-grown adults hanging out in my reproductive system. Ouch!

Well done.

Ah yes, the inappropriate comments. I have discussed this at length with some of my girlfriends, and it just blows my mind that people -- still! -- think it's OK to make assumptions and hand out 'advice' when they really have no idea of what's really going on. This winter, I had my bf's aunt (who is not really part of the family and who I'd never met before) interrogate me about why we're not married. I try to be pleasant when this stuff happens, but sometimes it's just. too. hard. So, I hear you, and this is well put.

Amen to that. I'm ultra sensitive to this issue after seeing everything my sister has been through with years of infertility. I agree with every word Leah. Great post.

Thank you for writing this, and I hope you don't mind if I link to you and say "THERE! WHAT SHE SAID! NOW LEAVE ME ALONE!"

You really don't know how this touched me. How I needed to read just this today.

But, again, thank you.

I'm sorry for my part, Leah.

I hate myself for saying it this way, but: you go, girl.

While I totally agree with your point that it's rude to harangue people about having kids, I feel like that's a totally separate issue than people asking if you're pregnant.

You've made it clear that you are interested in having kids and soon. Your commenters seem like a kind, gentle and polite bunch, who only want for you what you have professed to want. I realize intent is only half the battle when you're having a tough week, but I figure as long as I'm not getting the "you're a fat dumb bitch" comments, I'm having a good week. I guess we have different standards that way.

I've always thought of you as a mommyblogger in training, again, because of what you've expressed here in these pages. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

The difference with blogging and real life is that in real life, we don't share so much but in the blog world, you're inviting comments. If the comments are too much to bear, then I guess it's just a question of what to write about. Or if to write at all.

Also, sometimes when you're pregnant, you don't actually know you're pregnant. Don't ask me how I know.

I'm always tempted to answer the inevitable "so when are you two getting married?" with a shrewish shriek of "you think I'M the one who doesn't want to get married? ASK HIM!" and then have the questioner look at him and mouth "Ooh. Yeah. Good decision." Well, let's just say I sympathize. :)

Your Jane Austen-esque first sentence killed me, by the way.

Slackmistress--Yes, I think we do have different standards and are sensitive about different things, which I think makes sense. You've had some super-shitty commenters, and I'm lucky to have mostly nice, well-meaning people, but I don't think that their intent or whether or not comments are open on an entry mean I don't have room to object to what's said or try to set things straight on a larger scale. (Not that you're saying I shouldn't...)

Clearly, no one was trying to be mean here, and I wasn't at all personally hurt by anything anyone said. I was, however, annoyed that people might assume that I don't know my body. And that they'd think that anyone so well versed in all things mommyblog wouldn't put two and two together herself if pregnancy were a possibility. I think that's what it comes down to--I'm offended that people think I'm dumb. That's pretty typical of me. I graduated college with a 4.0! I'm a genius! I promise!

The fact remains that for all anybody knows Simon doesn't have balls and I haven't ovulated since 1992. He does and I have, but none of you could be sure until just now, could you?

Yeah! I have balls! BALLS, I tell you!

And they are fantastic.

-Simon.

*Stands up, applauds, sits back down at desk*

I got a really shitty email from a reader of my blog today and also, a really shitty comment on my most recent post so, selfishly, great timing. I kind of want to direct them here and say: read, learn, come back to me when it has sunk in.

You have beautifully worded a sensitive, close-to-home subject. Thank you for your passionate defense of those you love.

A few months ago on meeting someone - for the very first time - he asked why I don't have any kids. I thought him rude but just brushed it off with a weak laugh, thinking 'For all he knows I'm trying to do just that!'
Anyway it got even worse, when I left the gathering this man actually gave me a big slap on the shoulder and told me to go home and have sex with my husband. Only he said it lots more rudely. I was flabbergasted. It was even worse than the time the girl at work asked me if I was pregnant. (Trust me, I have never worn THAT top again.)
Oh well, even my mum rang me the other day to suggest that if I didn't want to stay home and look after the baby (WHAT BABY???) then maybe my husband could, it's the modern thing to do now.

Ew, that reminds me of this guy I work with (not a coworker, but a higher-up "affiliate"). He tries to be all grandfatherly and overly intimate with everyone, but it just comes across creepy because he's always asking personal questions and I doubt he even knows half of our names. Anyway, one time I was standing by the wall where we've posted pictures of all the babies born to employees or authors, and he pointed at them, nudged me, and said, "That'll be you someday. Maybe soon? What do you think? Huh?" On the one hand, YES, I hope so! But on the other hand, EW! None of your business! Do you even know what my name is, old man?

So well put. I was having a similar conversation at work today. A friend of mine has two kids, but some people think it's not enough and harass her about having more. It's pretty well known, by those who know me, that I don't want to have my own kids. That by no means makes me a kid-hater, as people who don't know me assume when I say I don't plan to procreate. I've worked exclusively with children for over 13 years! I love kids! Other people's kids. Not that it is any of their business. That's why I write about my dogs and hamster and never say anthing too personal. ;-)

You should be a mediator. You are so good at communicating both sides of an argument without being abrasive or offensive to either party. This post was perfection.

Oh gosh. Can I print out the 3rd last paragraph and hand it out as my response to the question of when Chris and I are having kids? The simple answer is that we're not, ever. And I am tired of people telling me but you're healthy now (after losing 90lbs) and you should before you're 30! And you should! Ummm, no, thanks. Why is it assumed that after marriage (4 months after nonetheless!), kids have to be next? Why is our plan for the future ANYONES business but ours and those we chose to share it with? Ugh, this bothers me so much.

oh yesyes--

my career is pregnancy related (though i have no kids), and it is so so helpful to be reminded of this-- how delicate and sensitive we must be. pregnancy is loaded-- people getting pregnant who don't want to me, people not being pregnant who do want to be--- it can all be quite tricky. many thanks for the articulate reminder to stay sensitive.

Amen, sister. I find the "Ooh, you might be pregnant!" comments sort of sick and intrusive. What could be MORE personal than that decision?

I wish I could print this out and hand it around to everyone I know. After trying for 7 years to get pregnant I am no longer as sensitive to people's comments. But occasionally one still gets me. The other day someone asked me, with a big smile on her face, if I was pregnant. The reason? My shirt was in the peasant style and I was a little bloated. I told her, "No, just a pudge today." Then I actually felt bad for making her feel bad for asking. Ah, well, I'm rambling. Your post just hit home today.

Just another reason I heart you so, Leah. Because honestly? SOMEONE needs to tell everyone this because apparently it is no longer common sense. When did that happen?

P.S. And by SOMEONE I mean nobody could've said it better than you so I'm glad it was you!

I totally agree with your point, Leah. We have all kinds of social boundaries regarding other potentially sensitive topics, but apparently a lot of people think that people’s pregnancy status is something you can discuss any which way like. I don’t get that.
Even though I have two children myself and enjoy being a parent I would never try to impose that lifestyle on someone else.
Also it makes me upset that it's mostly the women in a relationship who is the target for these comments. Yes, the woman carries the child, but having a kid is a joint project.

Don't pee on your keyboard. That can't be good for it.

Hello, I am totally delurking for that post. I have been visiting your site (and totally enjoying it :) ) for about a month and that last post was soooo refreshing! So honest and so true, you made something that is common sense, tangeable. Thank you very much.

Ugh, yes. Point well made. Just yesterday my coworker asked me when my boyfriend and I are getting married. And that wasn't the first time she's asked (the answer: not anytime soon...). I dread the day when I'm actually married and get the "when are you having kids?" question. And those are both about as uncomfortable to answer as, "Do you have a boyfriend?" when you're single.

It's a simple four letter word, people...TACT.

Thanks, guys. It means a lot to have your support.

Oh oh. I just (and now immediately regret it) emailed newlywed friends with a crack about having babies ... I shouldn't have done that and will not do it again. I am married, I don't have children, both for medical reasons and by choice and am now of an age where granchildren would be fun, but I won't have those either will I? It really didn't occur to me that I wasn't being funny. Thank you for the eye opener.

Just another voice in the choir, but YES. I'm in the "not-gonna-have-kids-ever" camp, and while I'm lucky not to catch too much flak from friends and family, I am on guard for it, and I that's made the topic an extra sensitive one for me, too. I am continually amazed at how invasive people are about this extremely personal and private issue. As others have said, thanks for putting them in their place with such grace.

I have been accused of being pregnant . . . since I was 16! Even when I was a gangly teenager, I had a little bulging lower stomach. I would get annoyed when people would stare at it because it looked like they were staring at my crotch. Then as I got older, I became busty and that also made people think that I was expecting.

What I can't stand is that a lot of the assumptions have come from doctors or nurses. I would go see a doctor for an earache or eye problem, and their diagnosis would be that I was pregnant. I even had this problem when I would call and speak to a doctor or nurse that I had never met before. I always would get the same diagnosis - pregnancy or stress. They must encounter a lot of women who do not know their own bodies. I am not one of those women.

I am thinking of losing some weight, but I like how I'm big enough now that people just realize that I'm chubby and not pregnant. I'm so afraid of being accused of being pregnant again. So, maybe I should lose weight and also get a tummy tuck and chest reduction.

amen.

I saw a joke somewhere once about what someone would say to the people who at babyshowers/weddings would ask them with a jab in the ribs "are you next"?
whenever they saw them at a funeral they'd jab them in the ribs and ask "are you next"?

now everytime I get the question I picture them at a funeral.... it helps.

I'd like to think we could all keep our opinions to ourselves when it comes to who should be procreating and when (also substitute "procreating" with "getting married").

In short: Misery loves company.

You can also use any of the following substitutions in the "When are you going to ____?" question:
switch to Linux
change long-distance carriers
write your very own blog
join [specific_religion]
buy [shiny_new_gadget]
subscribe to [periodical_publication]
retire

In its essence it all just a case of Brand Zealotry. In today's case, the brand being promoted is the perceived status of having spawned your very own Mini Me.

Heh.

Before I married my current husband who has two kids who look like they could be my daughter's actual siblings, I had people giving me the stinkeye all the time for having only one. I had a bagger at a supermarket imply that it was akin to abuse to raise an only child. Hello? I am one and I am very well-adjusted, thanks.

'Course, now I'm pregnant with my current husband's child, and people look at our three kids and make comments about how big our family is already. Just goes to show you can't please anybody, ever.

first time reader, delurking to say BRAVA! I'll be back.

Well said, Leah! Great post!

"I think that's what it comes down to--I'm offended that people think I'm dumb."

I got pregnant unexpectedly (just two days after my period) and didn't realize it for over a month. My being 'dumb' had nothing to do with it. (I finished my graduate program with a 4.0, so I guess if that's the standard, I'm a genius too.) Your point about pregnancy and privacy is valid but your delivery left me unsympathetic. If you're really just offended that people think you're too dumb to realize that you might be pregant, why turn it into a diatribe on the questions and opinions we all should keep to ourselves?

I have to agree with aliastaken and the slackmistress. I COMPLETELY agree that reproductive issues are private, and shouldn't be guessed at by perfect strangers who know you only through a blog that represents probably one-third, if that, of your life.

BUT, I find it very strange and this post somewhat disingenuous when back at the beginning of this year you were teasing (with more than one post) your readers with a possible pregnancy. I suppose for me that isn't behavior I expect of someone who is fiercely protective of this information and sensitive to what seems good-natured speculation.

You can't have it both ways, in my opinion alone -- teasing about possible pregnancies, inviting your readers into speculation when you want, and then claiming the higher ground when it suits you, taking people to task for behavior you, on some level, cultivated.

My friend (married 7 years but in grad school currently) was at a party recently with some good friends, when one of the husbands said to her "Can I feel the baby?" She said "What are you talking about?" and he responded that he could tell she was pregnant by the shape of her face. She's not. She was stunned. I think he thought he was funny, but he crossed the line.

I don't even have a SO at the moment and people tell me what a great mother I'll be and that I should have kids soon. Thanks. I need them to remind me that the clock is ticking.

I'm sure some people were just innocently trying to be helpful to you and some were teasing. What bothers me is the bandwagon mentality - one person mentions it and then everyone starts saying it. I think you're public service reminder - think about what you say to people and what it could mean to them - is well said. For some people, these topics are extremely sensitive. On the other hand, I'm sure your commenters meant no ill will (is there a - in there?). I think readers get caught up in HOPING for you what they think you want someday? Does that make sense?

I hope that people take from your post - a need to be sensitive - more so in the blogosphere where we don't always know the real or whole story.

This might be the longest comment I've ever written. Sorry.

If you don't want people to comment on your personal life, then don't put your personal life on the internet, in a public forum, with a section devoted soley for comments.

You've posted about your house, garden, boyfriend, kittens, among other things, AND your intense desire to have a baby, preferably soon. You describe feeling tired and emotionally whacked, two symptoms of possible pregnancy. So it's ok to comment on the wonderfulness of some subjects you post about, but Keep Off The Lawn with the baby issue? Like the Slackmistress said, if you can't deal with the comments, then don't write about it. Like Michelle said, you can't have it both ways, and it's something you have cultivated yourself.

Seems somewhat akin to coyly coaxing the kitty kat to come to you, and then acting indignant and pissy when it does.

k

If you don't want people to comment on your personal life, then don't put your personal life on the internet, in a public forum, with a section devoted soley for comments.

You've posted about your house, garden, boyfriend, kittens, among other things, AND your intense desire to have a baby, preferably soon. You describe feeling tired and emotionally whacked, two symptoms of possible pregnancy. So it's ok to comment on the wonderfulness of some subjects you post about, but Keep Off The Lawn with the baby issue? Like the Slackmistress said, if you can't deal with the comments, then don't write about it. Like Michelle said, you can't have it both ways, and it's something you have cultivated yourself.

Seems somewhat akin to coyly coaxing the kitty kat to come to you, and then acting indignant and pissy when it does.

k

Dude. Seriously. PLEEEEEEEEASE continue posting about your life and your personal opinions about things.

I think your blog is wonderful. From the small (very small) peek into your life provided via the blog, and from the brief e-mail exchanges that we've had, I think you are quite wonderful too.

I just wanted to say, "Amen, Sister" to the whole "don't tell people they should get married/have kids and/or when."
I TOTALLY agree. "don't assume they want kids" is also good advice. If someone doesn't volunteer that they want to have a child (or a second child, or to get married) then don't tell them they should or NEED to. These are HUGE life decisions that come with TONS of resposnsibility and change. They shouldn't be taken lightly or thrown around flippantly, UNLESS you are REALLY close to the person you are talking to.
In other words, what you said!
I also think you can talk about your personal life and it doesn't mean people can boss you around or assume they know everything. Sheesh.

I absolutely, completely, 100% agree that it is insensitive to ask these sorts of questions. I've been married for three years and have a toddler, and now the queries have moved on to when baby # 2 is coming.

But to the defence of the questioners: I do believe, in most instances, there is genuine interest and care behind people asking. I find it hard to believe that people purposely make conversation in hopes of offending the person they are speaking with. Most times I get the baby # 2 question, it is from friends and family who I know love me -- not strangers, wherein the query would cross the personal as opposed to sensitivity line.

Sometimes people don't put the package together that an innocent sentence can cause such hurt. How are we to know unless said person has spoken of pregnancy etc. issues? Not to say that's expected, but look at it from the other side.

Society has laid out this map the vast majority of humans follow (go to school, get a job, get married, have kids). So to ask where a person is on that journey does not seem like a bad thing, in most cases (not, for example, from a destructive aunt niggling you for being single or married without kids).

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying not to be so quick to get angry at people for asking when they a) don't have all the necessary information, and b) are just trying to be nice and show interest in your life.

Kate and Carly--If you'll read carefully, you'll see that I was neither angry or offended on my own behalf.

Aliastaken--That's not how I meant it, and I'm honestly sorry you read it that way. You're right--it just goes to show how careful we have to be about this sort of thing.

Michelle--When did I ever tease about being pregnant? I would never do that. I have not been trying to get pregnant, not even been in a position to hope it would "just happen" (i.e., I'd like it to happen with a willing partner), and I don't know if you've been reading long at all, but it's just not in me to play around with something like that.

Overall, the frustration that inspired this entry came out of thinking of all the times people have left "OMG you're pregnant" comments on the blogs of my infertile friends. It usually always happened when they were having "pregnancy symptoms" that actually meant the exact opposite for them--miscarriages or illness. Although huge, swollen boobs + nausea + no period + unprotected sex might lead most people to say "OMG, you're pregnant!" I think it's kind of nuts that people would automatically jump to the same conclusion if someone says she's been tired lately. Sometimes tired is just tired, right?

So, again, unless someone is saying things like "I've been throwing up for weeks and I haven't gotten my period, HINT HINT," I think it's safer and kinder if we all just assume that it's not pregnancy or that, if it is, the pregnant person will reveal that in her own good time, on her own terms.

I also maintain that no matter how public people are about their private lives online (or in the more mainstream media), they are never obligated to share all, and they also never have to just sit back and accept things that make them uncomfortable, for whatever reason.

This entry was written zero malice or aggression--it's a shame some of the comments have misread, misinterpreted, and taken it to another place.

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