A Girl...

I was the best man at two of my best friends very catholic weddings. I did not know there was so much group kneeling and praying at such weddings. I chose not to kneel or pray during the ceremonies out of respect to the religion.

I felt a bit guilty because it ruined the symmetry of all the wedding photos. There were the grooms kneeling next to their wives-to-be kneeling on one side of an altar. Then there was the maids of honor kneeling on the other side of the altar with me sitting on a holy chair just looking.

I did receive quite a few comments from wedding goers that they respected this. So I felt alright. But I honestly don't know how the actual couples felt about this. I assume there are alot of people angry that I ruined the photos in such beautiful cathedral weddings.

Honestly I wouldn't have had a problem playing along for the pix. I just figured that I didn't want to be a hypocrite in front of all the people that I knew in the audience. Selfish?

I think there are some things that you're not supposed to or not allowed to just go along with such as taking communion at a Catholic church. I thought you had to go to confession first.

If there was one thing about a Catholic church I would go long with it would be confession. LOL Unburdening my soul is a life-long passion.

I, too, have been incredibly uncomfortable in religious/church settings. The most uncomfortable time I've ever been stuck in was during a funeral for a Mormon friend of mine. He'd killed himself because he was a.) gay and b.) an alcoholic. Tragic. Then I heard the pastor/minister/whatever say that his "defects" would be removed in the afterlife and I about lost it.

I have no idea how to be polite in situations that make the hair stand up on my neck so I've just decided to not attend or to always, always stay to the back with the other heathens.

Tricky issue.

I stand, sit, kneel with the congregation as necessary. I think to stand while others are kneeling would show a lack of respect and even look like you were in protest of the ceremonies.
I do not participate in the prayers and I would never take communion.
As a former Catholic, I can tell you that no one that is not a member of the church, and in the appropriate spirutual state, should partake of communion.
The Methodists don't seem to be such sticklers about communion, but that's just what my wife says.

Seriously, when in doubt, speak to a minister (whatever) or lay leader of some sort and explain the situation. They will no doubt help...or drive you from the church and burn you as a non-believer if your luck is bad.

Well, at least with the mosque thing, I wouldn't even be allowed inside so it's a moot question

With Churches, I have always stand when required and keep quiet/listen. With the whole singing issue, I don't know any of the lyrics so it's not an issue because I don't even know the words.

I don't take communion. I thought you had to be a Catholic to actually *take* the communion. I know they don't issue ID cards but I've been in Catholic churches and haven't taken it and no one said a word.

My family is Hindu-running from Atheist Hindu (yes, Hinduism, the only religion where you don't actually have to believe in a God) to Chanto-Rama Hindu, but I'm from a part of India that has a large Catholic population and my parents have friends who are Catholic Hindus. We invite them to certain functions (weddings etc.) that are religious in nature and they basically behave the same way I do at Churches. At weddings they throw the rice, but may not screech out "Mangala Murti Moria" and at home poojas (weddings are like 3 day affairs, too complicated to go into here) they've stood respectfully during the pooja. Some have taken the aarti (that's where you wave your hands over the fire).

I don't expect anyone of a different religious faith to participate in my religion...in large part because I'm ideologically opposed to the concept of conversion (another tenet of my faith). However, if people get invited to things like Hindu weddings and decide they want to come (which they don't have to do, I mean, the giant elephant on the front of the invite is usually a pretty clear signal for "Crazy Eastern Religion"), I expect them to at least STFU and hang around without doing anything instead of looking down upon us and make a ruckus leaving the room when it's not even about them.

Catholic Indians, sorry.

If I have to attend church, such as for a funeral or a wedding, I bow my head during prayers and I stand/sit/kneel as everyone else does. Doing otherwise would, as a previous poster said, look as if I were actually protesting, which would be inappropriate.

Some of the issues mentioned here, though, seem like they could be worked out ahead of time. If you're going to participate in a religious ceremony for a religion you're not a part of, it seems like the best thing would be to go to someone involved and explain the problem ahead of time, and see what they said to do.

Personally, I like the sound of YOUR religion.

So it sounds like people think it's better to go along with things lest one be thought a protester. (Not that protesting isn't valid, but it's just not very respectful if one is choosing to attend a ceremony for family or friends about whom one cares. Going with the flow in this case is not about showing respect to the religion but showing respect to the people who believe in the religion.)

That said, I still find it hard to believe that devoted religious people don't really care if nonbelievers participate in their rituals when they think it's all bunk. I personally would rather have nonbelievers abstain from my religion rather than give lip service too, and therefore blaspheme, my god (who would be made of marshmallows).

Some churches promote an authentic, spirtual experience. It's not ritual for the heck of it, or being in church just to be religious. I would say that any good church wouldn't mind if you were protesting, because good churches welcome everyone with open arms and love - even if a visitor's beliefs are far from their own. So I would say be real, be authentic. Some chuches are neither. Many churches are.

True religion is an inward, spiritual transformation. It has little to do with ritual or going through the motions. No need to play along if you aren't feeling it.

We are having a civil ceremony for our wedding dispite the fact that we were both brought up catholic and went to catholic schools. We are doing this out of respect for my fahter who is a strong practising catholic. We thought it would be offensive for us to have a church wedding just so it looked "pretty" when neither of us are practising or have any beleif in the catholic doctrine. We also didn't feel comfortable with the way that the catholic wedding ceremony makes you promise to bring your children up catholic, when are not intending to have children.

I'm of the "when in Rome" school of thought. If you kneel/stand/bow your head when everyone else does, that doesn't mean you have to actually pray or sing the hymn or believe in what's being said or even listen for that matter. But I think the impulse of human beings to be comfortable and not to have, say, someone rubber-necking at them while they're praying, shouldn't be understated - I think it's more respectful to quietly go through the motions than to stand around looking awkward or protesty.

Although this has limits, as in the Communion scenario at a Catholic church or really in any ceremony in which there is any kind of ritual that is specifically related to part of the belief system, i.e., transubstantiation.

As an aside, in Episcopal churches, anyone who has been baptized is welcome to take communion, and if you want you can even go up to the rail and ask for a blessing instead; that said, lots of people sit communion out and since there's lots of activity at that point it really doesn't matter. Just like lots of people stand for the hymns but don't sing them (including me but that's only because I have a horrific singing voice).

So perhaps it's hard for me to opine fully here, as I am in a very "live and let live" kind of place personally and spiritually; whereas if I were aligned with a highly orthodox religion, I might be deeply offended that someone would participate in a service or what have you without believing.

On the other hand, at weddings and funerals and stuff - which seems to be where this usually arises since I've never accidentally found myself in a mosque, for example - I figure if there are people of all stripes invited to the thing, then either the couple should provide instructions to help out the non-believers, or everyone should do whatever is in their comfort zone but that also does not give offense.

(Yes, I am STILL going.)

At our wedding, there were a lot of people of differing faiths, but it was in a church and the service itself was Episcopalian. We put detailed instructions in the program (although we didn't have communion or anything) -- for example, for the response after the Scripture reading and after The Peace -- and I'm sure lots of people said the words and lots of people didn't. Didn't matter to me a bit. I would have thought it weird, though, if after the priest said, "Let us pray," people had gawked around at each other instead of bowing their heads. But that's me.

I do what you do - go along so as not to offend anyone for blatantly not accepting (i.e. rejecting) what is so important to them.

As for the Catholic communion, I'm Christian and believe all those who believe may receive it. I reject outright the Catholic belief that I may not receive it because I am not Catholic. I've taken it in a Catholic church and I'm sure I will again. My taking communion is about me and God, not a middle man.

I liked the term "competing religions". Does the church with the most converts win?

:)

I like Texas T-Bone's comment. I personally go to a Baptist church (and have been to other evangelical denominations) who welcome anyone and everyone. You can sit if you want, stand if you want, lay down if you want. God doesn't care. He's just happy to talk to you, whether in church or in the bar.

As for the mormon thing of making people do missions, that's just bizarre to me. If you really believe in God, He is just as happy when you tell your next door neighbour about Him as when you tell a foreign nation. Though some people feel called to go elsewhere, you can do missions in your home town. That is, if you really believe what you are espousing.

PS - God doesn't like religion either.

Boy have I had this conversation with myself so many times. I mean I don't want to appear rude but...

Though let me know when you do start up that religion of yours. Sounds like something I could get behind.

I agree with your note above about not wanting people to pay lip service if they don't really mean it. "My" religion is very much focused on the state of the individual's heart and if your heart isn't in agreement why on earth make your body go along with the actions!?

About half of Superman's family is very Catholic (way more than just Sunday mass attenders) and so when we go we usually sit/stand/sing and sit (instead of kneel) and I've memorized most of the common congregational responses. We haven't taken communion very many times and when you don't it sure does stand out to others. I think we did take communion at his Grandfather's funeral and also when his uncle was ordained as a deacon. Mixed messages? I don't know, but it just seemed like the "right" thing to do. As if by going through the motions we would honor the family member somehow (which is probably the worst reason to go through motions according to the Catholic religion.) =)

as a failed catholic who no longer takes communion and rarely plays along, i don't think it matters one bit which you choose. it's a good question but the answer is always personal choice much like anything in life. do what feels right and if someone challenges you, then explain. if they are good peeps, then they'll accept the answer... if not, then you did the right thing anyway.

eh, i haven't had a problem with this... i think it's pretty easy to be polite during religious services, even when you don't buy into them. i was raised catholic, now am lds, but frequently attend mass with my family or services with other friends. i don't kneel when the catholics do, i just sit quietly. i don't always say "amen," but i do say it if i believe in what they're saying (i.e. not after the nicene creed!). i'll say the "our father," but not the nicene creed. i would never, in a million years, take communion, as i understand how seriously the catholics take it, believing it's literally turned into christ's body and all.

the weirdest services we attended were some sort of christian science thang. it was super bizarre, but there were aspects to appreciate and we could at least sit quietly and be respectful. and sing "all you need is love" by the beatles for the closing song, haha.

My boyfriend and his family are Catholic, and he goes to church every Sunday. I go with him a couple times a month, because it's important to him - but he respectfully doesn't expect me to convert or anything like that.

I basically just stand there and stare into space and work on improving my Czech language. It's pretty damn boring, to be honest. But in terms of "what do I do?" - well, I don't do anything because it's not my religion and I've finally gotten comfortable not caring if people notice I just stand there. Though I do occasionally at least kneel, only cause I feel funny being the ONLY person not doing so. You stick out like a sore thumb.

My brother had a catholic service for his wedding as that is his wife's religion. I embraced it like the good sister I am and didn't make a fuss about the kneeling and praying, etc.

Like you said, personal preference and more than anything, what makes me most uncomfortable are people that feel the need to shove their religious beliefs down my throat. I'll embrace a religion and respect it of course if I'm attending a service and then move on. But I wouldn't dare tell people what to believe and how to believe because that makes me considerably more uncomfortable. I guess I'm just weird.

I was raised Muslim and was fairly observant up until a few years ago.

During the time when I was actually practicing I attended a couple of Catholic masses, and sat around a few tables where grace was said. When I attended the Catholic masses with my very devout friend I wasn't so much worried that I would stick out or offend someone there as I was worried that I would be doing something wrong in the eyes of my religion. I talked it over with a few people though, and was convinced it wasn't a problem. During the mass I sat when everyone kneeled, and I obviously didn't take communion. The friend I went with was okay with me sitting, but also said that he wouldn't have minded/seen anything wrong with me kneeling along with everyone else.

As for saying grace, well, we Muslims also say a little prayer before a meal, albeit silently and very quickly and without the handholding part. That was usually the part that bothered me most(eek! someone's germs on my hands right before I eat!) But in general I just went along with it.

And finally - if you should ever find yourself in a mosque (which, btw, Monkey, you're totally allowed into) I'm fairly certain you're not expected to do anything at all since, if you can't speak Arabic and/or don't know the prayers, then you basically can't participate. I guess you just sit in the back and observe, though I imagine that would get pretty boring. There's not much ceremony in Islam - even marriages are fairly clinical and consist of a contract being signed. Sometimes these contract-signing ceremonies are held in mosques and sometimes not, but anyone's allowed to attend no matter where it is held. The wedding party - if there is one - is usually held after the contract-signing in a hotel.

If you're asked to attend or participate in a religious wedding, presumably the people know you and where you stand (especially participating). They are asking you to respect and rejoice who they are. They aren't asking you to, on the one hand, embrace their beliefs (except that marriage generally is nice) or, on the other hand, disrespect their decision by refusing to attend.

You're being asked to witness a marriage. It's respectful to assume that religion is like sex - what happens in the mind (and bedroom) is their business and their's alone.

There's my twelve-ty nine cents.

OH, fantastic. Because I'm currently reading a book that's thrown my un-believing ass in to some sort of "either all religions suck or I do.." and it's been brought up that I should attend a few to see what they actually say/do. And uh? Really? I'm. Well. A bit crisping in my undies over that. But I'd still totally go to a wedding for someone. Even if I totally didn't kneel or hail mary or whatever.

But I'd probably come home and blog about it. :-)

(And Angela that said God doesn't like religion either? Awesome. I'm so writing that down.)

Wow... this post could not have been timed better. I've got a family mass coming up in two weeks for an uncle who died five years ago. The boyfriend self-describes as atheist and missed my uncle's funeral. So do I try to broach the issue again this time around? Should he be coming as a gesture of support for me? My family are religious but I'm not particularly so and neither they nor I would mind him going through the motions. But it does seem somewhat selfish...and as you pointed out, disrespectful. Still, I get the impression that forcing the issue in my case is going to cause an argument :(

i think it depends on the situation. I think it's fair to go to a service and follow along but not actively participate - i don't think that's "lip service." like following along with a service but not taking communion. or taking your shoes off in a mosque but not doing all the genuflecting. like someone else said, if you're planning in advance you could ask someone of that religion what they're comfortable. there is a line, though, where i might be more careful. like actively trying to convert someone to a religion i didn't believe in.

newegyptian, I made that comment because my family and I went on a trip to Northern India and attempted to go *close* to a mosque famous for its architecture (not even go inside) and were told to beat it. Eventually some of the crowd said my dad could go near it, but not me, my sister and my mom.

This was around the time of a lot of sectarian violence so maybe that was it-but it's not like any of us have attempted it since.

as a lapsed catholic, i know that my church, where i even got married despite living in sin with a non-cat, don't make you promise to raise your children catholic, let anyone who wants to take communion, and we only kneel once (after the jesus eating part), we may sit up and down a couple of times though. i guess what i am trying to say, that despite my lack of practice and disagreement with lots of catholic things, some catholic churches are more liberal than others and i was really lucky to be raised where i felt really accepted and unshamed and that all that other bad stuff you hear about being catholic.

also, i agree completely with Krissa, also also, i love the 'god doesn't even like religion' thing. AND I too play along in other churches, but i dig singing if a book is provided. that said, really loud, PRAISE THE LORD, evangelical type church services scare me. catholics are quiet. :-)

Monkey, I had suspected that you made your comment based on some personal experience which may have possibly been influenced by the sectarian violence in India (or in any of the other places where it unfortunately occurs).

I, of course, am speaking from the perspective of what I have experienced in the Arab world. Christian friends of mine have attended funerals and marriage ceremonies in mosques here in Egypt. The women among them did not have to wear head scarves, as some might expect they would be required to
do. When I lived in Kuwait we took a school trip to one of the mosques and the blondie Americans in my class were only required to remove their shoes.

So. It's too bad you had to deal with the political bs. If you ever find yourself in Egypt I'd be happy to show you around some beautiful mosques. Until then, you can check out a couple of pictures taken within a Cairo mosque by a Danish Jew:
http://dannebrog313.blogspot.com/2006/07/cairo-and-eye-of-beholder.html